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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
Backwoodsman BS: If I were a remainer... (116* d) RE: BS: If I were a remainer... 24 Mar 19


No, your views are not an irrelevance, Al. But so far, despite Remainers giving many, many examples of the benefits of membership of the EU, and what will be lost if (and I do believe it's a case of 'if' now, not 'when' - fingers crossed I'm right) we leave, you Leavers have failed completely to tell us what will be gained.

Raggy has asked, over and over again, on other threads, for our arch-Brexiteers to give us a few examples of how we will be better off - not airy-fairy, broad-brush waffle like "Stimulate the production of all sorts of things", but carefully considered, factual examples of solid, tangible benefits. There has been not one answer - at the best we've had silence, at the worst we got trolling, insults and abuse.

Over the past three years, all you have given us is reasons for leaving based on your perception of ways the EU has 'wronged' us - all in the distant past, all incorrect. Your pet moans seem to be that the EU destroyed our fishing and manufacturing industries - both nonsense.

The fishing industry - the real, serious, deep-sea industry that was the bedrock of the fishing business - was wrecked by Iceland's claiming sovereignty over waters far from its shores, a claim upheld by the International Court, and wrecked too by our own reckless and greedy over-fishing. Nothing to do with the EU, British fishing was already shot by the time we joined the EEC in 1973. The owners disposed of the fleets of Deep-Sea vessels, and once they had gone, they were never going to come back.

Our manufacturing industries, along with mining, were the casualties of the dogmas of UK politicians and their own trade unions. I worked in an engineering company which was a major supplier of pit and coal-prep equipment in the '60s and '70s, and it was clear that the writing was on the wall all that time because of unions overstepping the mark (and I say that as a Union-member during those years) and, as we moved towards the '80s, because of the determination of the Thatcher regime to break the strength of the unions even though, in doing that, they wrecked manufacturing in this country. Thatcher knew that mining and manufacturing were the strongholds of the union movement and that, to destroy the strength of the unions, she had to destroy that stronghold. All down to the actions of politicians, aided and abetted by unions who chose to fight the system, here in the U.K. Bugger-all to do with that nasty Johnny Foreigner in the EEC.

So yes, I feel cheated. I feel cheated by a tiny group of largely non-dom tax-dodgers who dreamed up Brexit in order to escape new Anti-Tax-Dodging Regulations, I feel cheated by a small group of lying politicians who danced to their tune played through the Right-Wing media they control, I feel cheated by bare-faced lies like '350 million for the NHS', and 'immigrants are bankrupting the country", I feel cheated by sound-bites, and meaningless slogans like 'Take Back Control' (by which they meant 'give complete control to the same people who were quietly orchestrating the Leave campaign from their tax-havens), and I feel cheated by the people who allowed themselves to be sucked in by the lies, slogans, and sound bites, and voted to Leave the world's largest trading-bloc in which we hold a favoured position, which has made trade between its member states simple and straightforward, and which has given us seventy years of peace and prosperity.

So...make me feel better, stop me from feeling cheated - take some time and give us those solid, tangible benefits we will all get from leaving. I can't wait for the good news because, God knows, I'm sick and tired of hearing waffle, sidestepping and being told that, because I voted Remain, I'm a 'Traitor who should be arrested, marched out and shot' from Brexiteers.


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