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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
Taconicus BS: Rabbis Push FOX to Bust Beck... (178* d) RE: BS: Rabbis Push FOX to Bust Beck... 30 Jan 11

To Bill D:

Okay, now we're dividing into a number of different issues, making discussion difficult.

I agree, it's not an either/or division, or an exhaustive list. If it were one or the other, societies would be either anarchies or totalitarian states, whereas usually they are in-between. It's just two basic opposing instincts that interact in the dynamic of human society.

You're wrong about "attempts to force religious doctrines," etc. It's quite the contrary. There are movements to change the law to ALLOW public prayer, but NO serious attempt to require it as a matter of law. There are people who want to ALLOW communities to display religious symbols like the Ten Commandments, memorial crosses, etc. on public property, but NO efforts to pass laws requiring their presence. And "we are a Christian nation" is an opinion, not something that there is any serious threat of being imposed on us since most people continue to at least say they support the First Amendment, and no popular political movement (with the possible exception of the Islamic Brotherhood) has as its goal the establishment of a state religion.

But anyway, don't confuse what I said about "left" and "right" in our earlier conversation. I was talking about economic coercion only, not attempts to define morality, religion, etc. Look at what I wrote above to Tia, for example. With some very narrow exceptions, relating to a certain kind of libertarianism for instance, the current major political camps do not divide neatly into individual freedom versus collectivism in all areas of human or political life. However, they do more strongly align between the major parties in economic matters.

So really, we need to discuss economic individualism/collectivism separately from individualism/collectivism in other areas, at least when discussing current politics. As you yourself indicate, neither "side" is limited to one or the other in all aspects of human society. I was talking about economic freedom. I don't mind talking about religious and sexual freedom, but that should be discussed separately.

One final request: don't automatically assume that because I quote somebody, I'm adopting everything he says. I think there's a lot in what Bill Whittle says, and good food for thought and discussion, but it was he, not I, who said it. I do agree with the main thrust of his argument however, that many on the left are using the "violence is caused by rhetoric from the right" to tar their political enemies, and there is no real justification for doing so. What they are doing is scapegoating, and any serious student of history should realize it. That's one of the reasons it's important to remember what happened during the Holocaust so that we don't make the same mistakes, or allow ourselves to be fooled by the same types of propaganda techniques that led to one of the major nightmares of the last century.

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