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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Wolfgang BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. (239* d) RE: BS: Disprove 'Christianity'...You can't. 09 Feb 05

Mary heard the word ...and the word became flesh (maybe very wrong translation) that's how it goes; but anyone taking this not metaphorically can't expect to be taken seriously.

You can't test a nonphysical event with physical testing procedures, Bill. (Little Hawk)
Asking consciousness to exhibit obdurate, blind replicability is like fucking for virginity (Amos)

Why did both of you not make these comments when Amos told about the SRI experiments? They relied in principle on counting procedures for hits and looked whether more hits could be found than can be expected by chance (even what you would term nonphysical events can be counted). I have no problem at all with this approach (though the results beyond anecdotes as told above about changing the goalposts after a miss are far from convincing) but I have problems with people who tell on the one hand about what they consider positive results in an experimental approach and on the other hand later denounce such an approach when others use or discuss it. It reminds me of (rare) Christians who cite studies showing that prayer helps people healing quicker and when someone else points out methodological deficiencies and points to better done studies with other results quickly retreat to the position that the effect of prayers cannot be counted at all (which is the better argument as I understand the Christian faith).

Amos,(1) nobody asks for blind replicability, better than chance is the only request,
(2) stimulus/response psychology is a bit outdated and so is the idea that a person cannot but attend to a flow of information from outside. The focus of attention can be an inner state like thoughts, dreams or information from the body like headache. Attention always looks for changes and a continuous flow is a very bad attention grabber. We do not just act upon oncoming stumuli all of us and always in the same manner: (a) past expericences have influenced the more permanent neural wiring, (b) local influences like hunger, dizziness after sleep, preoccupation with a problem have an impact upon the non-permanent state of the neural activity (c) chance events like spontaneous neuron discharges also may play a role in which firing pattern will gain local stability in the next seconds. We are extremely far from any real understanding but I consider such an approach anything but dull. Dull I consider approaches that have already the answers.


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